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Police Harassment Transcript *Updated 26 Jun 2008* | |
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better navigationVISITORS ARE URGED to acces and READ THE IMPORTANT update and ADDENDA we were obliged to introduce in January 2002. You will find it at the top of the Updated Pages File. We are sure that you will share with us our concerns and most profound disappointment at and with persons who adopt and promote activities which they know are nothing but criminal in intent. We refer to the exclusive Confidentiality between fraudsters page.
Needless to say, they rely on the usual practices from within the legal circles, the professionals (solicitors and barristers when retained in such matters) and the courts, of course, to indulge as covered in the SKELETON ARGUMENT on appeal from the waffle delivered by HH DJ Lethem. Our founder's words 'the self perpetuating cancerous growth industry' were given solid skeleton and plenty of meat - the full substance of the activities through the courts, such as the scenarios proposed and elaborated upon by HH DJ Lethem. Contempt for the law and the evidence, as always shoved in the private closets of and by the Rampant Corruption Jockeys. Between the two areas of Law Enforcement, Organised, Institutionalised, Fraud flourishes and Corruption runs rampant within the institutions. The offenders have the best supporters in the world, for the promotion of their illustrious and enterprising activities. They have the recruits to 'the fraudsters club' that we cover in our pages. Such persons act as well tutored mischief makers. They act as master deceivers. They act as dishonest in intent stooges and they do so for and in the interest of personal greed and rewards as 'blackmailed into submissions victims', and or as 'willing participants 'in the distribution of the national budget revenue', through the schemes we cover in our pages. At all material times the controllers and managers of CIUKU Enterprises ensuring the public at large is mislead and crime is promoted as organised by the very circles, centuries ago. For the present note the attitude of the well trained in contempt for the law, 'officers of law' enforcement'. NOTE the blackmail and in intimidation elements that were brandished about by such persons. Consider WHY crime and criminals have been on the ascent and advancing at the expense of:
THE TRANSCRIPT ---- P.1 -------------------------- A Transcript of conversation between
Mr Roffey
and
two police officers. PC Crane and WPC King
16 August
B WPC KING: We have come round to speak to you about matters in HSBC Bank. Right?
Allegations have been made to us from them, from the original office stating that
you've got an ongoing battle with them, that it's getting more than that now, it's
getting out of hand, because you are now sending letters and videos, not only to the
Bank, but to managers that work there, to their personal houses.
MR ROFFEY: That's not -
C WPC KING: I am just telling you what the allegation is, yeah? Basically, an allegation
has been made to us of that. I am coming round here to warn you under the
Harassment Act that if you continue to do that, you will be arrested.
MR ROFFEY: Right. Which is the allegation and which house, please?
PC CRANE: We are not at liberty to give you anything else.
MR ROFFEY: No, no. Let's have my side. It's no good you walking in here and saying
D that `I'm alleging, I'm sending something', without telling me who it is.
WPC KING: We cannot tell you what house has been complaining obviously because -
MR ROFFEY: So, are we saying then, as far as the law is concerned, you come and
accuse me of something and then turn around and say `we can't tell you who it is'?
WPC KING: What I am saying is that I'm warning you under the Harassment Act. If
E you are doing anything that continues, you will be arrested and you will then have
a chance to be interviewed, when you would have a chance to put your side of the
story across.
MR ROFFEY: Right.
WPC KING: Okay?
MR ROFFEY: So what they are actually saying is that they can make their allegation like
F that then?
WPC KING: Yes.
PC CRANE: They feel they have enough evidence, and our Inspector spoke to their
regional manager, and they feel they have enough evidence. Initially, they
obviously didn't tell us enough, but we said it might be a civil matter.
G MR ROFFEY: That's what I was told when I was trying to contact the police about
fraud, that it's a civil matter, and they don't want to know about that.
PC CRANE: When we were told that managers were receiving material at their home
addresses, it actually came a criminal act under the Harassment Act. So what my
colleague has done is given you a warning. If you chose to heed that warning, and
you no longer you are obviously quite within your rights to have it out with the
bank, HSBC Bank, because obviously they are a large organisation
H
- 1 -
---- P.2 -------------------------- A MR ROFFEY: But what is the actual - you're saying there's an allegation, but not
prepared to tell me what it is.
PC CRANE: I'm not going to give you any personal addresses; that's confidential.
MR ROFFEY: I don't want that, I don't want that.
WPC KING: It is letters and videos being received by two or three managers at their
home addresses that they feel are threatening
B
MR ROFFEY: Then that's a lie. That's a lie. Let's put this down on record. Do you
want to make a note of that, please? There's no videos or letters been sent to two
or three addresses.
WPC KING: I'm not here to get your side of the story.
MR ROFFEY: No, you're accusing, or you come here to warn me about something that
C I'm supposed to have done. I'm making a comment now that that is a lie. Would
you make a note of that, please?
PC CRANE: If you wish to I take it you've got solicitors that are acting on your behalf,
do you?
MR ROFFEY: I'm not prepared to say anything about solicitors at the moment, because I
don't know what you're going to say to them. What I am saying is that what
D they've said is a lie, if they're saying two or three addresses.
PC CRANE: That's obviously - We sit on the fence, we don't know what's happened.
MR ROFFEY: I appreciate that.
PC CRANE: If you had made an allegation
MR ROFFEY: At this moment in time, you've come up and warned me about sending
material to two or three addresses. That is a lie. Would you make a note of that,
E please, that I've made that comment now.
PC CRANE: You've made a note of it.
MR ROFFEY: I know I've got a note here, but that might not be held. I know from this
conversation, that's my record. Would you now make your record that I've said
so.
F PC CRANE: When we write, we have to fill out an official record which we log with our
controller on our computer. We will log
MR ROFFEY: I know it might sound as if I'm perhaps having a go at you, and I know
you've got a job to do and you've got to act on it, but you just made a comment to
me that I sent material to two or three addresses, which I haven't. So, that is a pure
false accusation, so would you please make a note of that.
G PC CRANE: Right. At the moment, it's alleged.
MR ROFFEY: That's right.
PC CRANE: Nothing's proven at the moment, but it's alleged.
MR ROFFEY: That's something - could I just say something? Half of my problem with
this Bank is the fact that I've got documentation here that they've forged what's
the word, Carol?
H
MRS ROFFEY: Fabricated.
- 2 - ---- P.3 -------------------------- A MR ROFFEY: Fabricated, and now we're at it again. The accusation, you've come to
my door, police car outside, accusing me of sending material to two or three
addresses. That was your comment. It's not true. Take a note, please. It's that
simple
PC CRANE: Okay. A note will be made.
MR ROFFEY: Can you do it in front of me, then, so at least you can say that I've denied --
B WPC KING: Because I haven't got the relevant forms with me, they're back at the police
station.
MR ROFFEY: You've got a notebook, haven't you? Every police officer carries a
notebook.
WPC KING: It's not in that that it gets recorded. It gets recorded on our special
C
MR ROFFEY: What gets recorded is that you've been here, making a so-called allegation
that I've sent material to two or three addresses. I'm saying to you that that is a lie.
I'd like that down on record now, because this is what I've put up with
PC CRANE: We're not going to put it down on record. That's obviously on your tape.
We're not putting in our pocket notebooks. We are not here to argue the fact
we're not here to argue the history of what's happened. We're warning you that
D harassment is a serious offence if you don't heed our advice. If they receive any
more material, any more material whatsoever you can deal with the Bank, that's
fine, but if any employees receive any more material and they then put pen to
paper and make statements, it is a criminal act, and we will come and arrest you.
MR ROFFEY: So is it on that side then that they can say what they like from now on, and
I'm left wide open
E PC CRANE: They have to have evidence
MR ROFFEY: Excuse me one second and I can be left wide open. When you say
evidence, I've got evidence here where they fabricated letters. If they can fabricate
letters to me and I'm the person that knows what the story is, they can certainly
fabricate letters to you, and I'm left wide open.
PC CRANE: Obviously, you've got this all on tape, as you say. But, are you not dealing
F with the Banking Ombudsman?
MR ROFFEY: No, it's a waste of time. There's no point in dealing with people like that.
I'm dealing with a load of crooks at this Bank. I don't mind saying it. I'm dealing
with a load of crooks, liars, cheats, thieves, drunks.
PC CRANE: Surely, unless you get an official organisation with you, you're one man
against a huge organisation.
G
MR ROFFEY: I know I am, and that's what they've come up against, one man prepared
not to sit down and let them fight me. Do you know me at all?
PC CRANE: Are you connected with the coach
MR ROFFEY: It used to be my business, a million pound business. I was put out of
business overnight by an alcoholic. I had a £350,000 house that we were forced to
H move out in six days. This girl's been crippled through it. There it is over there,
look? [Demonstrating] It is all down to a direct result of what this Bank done and
- 3 - ---- P.4 -------------------------- A the way they did it, make her a drug addict. Walk out that door, have a look at this.
Look there. [Demonstrating] That's morphine, a pint every two days. They're
thieving, a load of liars, cheats, thieves, drunks and bullies, and the only way I've
been waiting for you to come. I knew this would be their next move. But what
they're doing is making false allegations.
PC CRANE: Unless you get a solicitor involved, or unless you get someone to back you,
B you're going to be fighting that forever, aren't you, because they're a huge
organisation.
MR ROFFEY: I know they are, same as British Leyland, and I beat them. Same sort of
system. Liars, cheats, thieves. I beat them. The point is you've told me quite
clearly that I wrote letters to two or three bank managers at their homes.
WPC KING: No, an allegation has been made.
C MR ROFFEY: I know it has. But that's what I'm saying, and that's a false allegation.
`MPG KING: We've come out here, we've warned you that if you are doing it and it
continues, you will be arrested. End of story.
PC CRANE: If it's to the Bank as a whole, a corporate organisation, not to any more
employees. I'm not saying you have, but there is -
MR ROFFEY: But are you saying that I can't write to an employee in my investigation?
D
WPC KING: At their home address.
MR ROFFEY: So they know they've left the Bank then?
PC CRANE: No, because their responsibility as an employee of the Bank is finished.
MR ROFFEY: That's it. They've still got information
E PC CRANE: That is deemed as harassment.
MR ROFFEY: What? That I write a letter. If you ?repeat this, and I want to call you as a
witness, I'll write to you and that's harassment, is it?
PC CRANE: You write through the organisation.
MR ROFFEY: What organisation?
PC CRANE: The Bank. You write through the Bank. If this goes to court I don't
F know at what stage or what you're doing - your solicitor -
MR ROFFEY: I'm not interested in solicitors; I'm doing it myself
PC CRANE: That's up to you. You can no longer write to employees, either current or
retired. If you do it again, it's harassment, it's a criminal act, and if you keep
doing it, you'll be banged up.
G MR ROFFEY: Oh well, we'll have to do that then. If that's what it means, I'll never get
out. So what you're saying - what Act are we talking about that you're saying that
if I write a letter to an actual employee asking for information
PC CRANE: That's harassment, under the Harassment Act.
MR ROFFEY: What Act is that?
PC CRANE: I don't know what the actual official
H WPC KING: The Harassment Act 1997.
- 4 - ---- P.5 -------------------------- A MR ROFFEY: What you're actually saying is that if I write a letter to a Midland Bank
employee that I consider was involved in my account, I want information from
him, just because I'm writing that letter, that's harassment.
PC CRANE: That's harassment.
MR ROFFEY: Just because I wrote one letter asking for information.
WPC KING: If you write any more letters, it will be harassment.
B
PC CRANE: You can write to Mr J Bloggs, current Area Manager of HSBC, current
employee, current responsibility for certain areas, but Mr J Bloggs, retired, or ex-
employee, you cannot write to him.
MR ROFFEY: Are you sure on that?
WPC KING: Yes, we are.
C PC CRANE: Definitely.
MR ROFFEY: That I can't write and ask the question.
PC CRANE: No, one hundred per cent.
WPC KING: If you do, you know the score.
MR ROFFEY: Are you absolutely sure that I can't write a letter?
D PC CRANE: We know the law.
MR ROFFEY: I understand, but can you tell me again.
WPC KING: We have, we've just told you that.
PC CRANE: The Harassment Act was bought out mainly -
MR ROFFEY: In 1997.
E
PC CRANE: - because of all the problems with stalkers. Part of this Act deals with this
area.
MR ROFFEY: I'm not a stalker.
PC CRANE: That's why it was brought out, because lots and lots of women were being
harassed and stalked. So they brought out an Act to cover it
F MR ROFFEY: I know they're acting like a load of old women.
PC CRANE: Well, at the end of the day, what we've done is that we've just told you. If
you chose to ignore our advice, then obviously the next visit will be, once we have
statements, then we will be arresting you. If you want to go down that route, that's
up to you.
MR ROFFEY: Let me get this clear. As far as you're concerned, I cannot write a letter
G to an ex-Midland Bank employee asking him questions.
PC CRANE: That's correct.
MR ROFFEY: That's harassment, just asking a question.
PC CRANE: That's harassment.
WPC KING: Okay.
H MR ROFFEY: Can I have your names, then please?
- 5 - ---- P.6 -------------------------- A PC CRANE: DC Crane 9572.
WPC KING: WPC King 10032.
PC CRANE: We are both from Tunbridge Wells Police Station.
MR ROFFEY: Now that you are here then, what about if I say that they've been
fabricating letters? What do we call that?
B DC CRANE: If they are fabricating letters, when you say `fabricating letters', what do
you mean?
MR ROFFEY: I am asking for documentation, reference my account, and I've got the
originals which they're not aware of, and they're fabricating letters of the originals
to justify what they've done.
DC CRANE: If you can prove, if you've got an original letter stating, for argument's
C sake, on 10 January you had £500 in your account, you're a good customer, and
they're now saying that same letter on 10 January, you were £500 overdrawn and
you were a bad customer, and you can prove that, then you've got to go to a
solicitor and go through the civil courts.
MR ROFFEY: That's not fraud, then, they're not committing any sort of fraud then,
altering documentation?
D PC CRANE: First and foremost, you need to get a solicitor behind you, alright?
MR ROFFEY: I've made two complaints to the police now, one at Crawly, and one at
the Head Office at Maidstone. They're not prepared to do anything.
PC CRANE: Alright. So do you have actual evidence? You have the original letters
MR ROFFEY: I've got various letters here, where they've fabricated letters. I believe
they have even altered bank statements to justify what they've done.
E PC CRANE: If you feel the Bank has been fraudulent, then we're the wrong people to
deal with that. What we are are PCs out on patrol. You need to talk to our fraud
department.
MR ROFFEY: That's what I've tried to do, but they won't have them, so could you
recommend they talk to me? They say they don't want to know about - you see,
I've been on to the Department of Trade & Industry this morning, and like you say,
F I'm a small cog fighting a big company, and a small cog, nobody wants to know
about. You come here to say I'm committing an offence if I write somebody a
letter, but if I want to say to you `I'm complaining about committing fraud', you're
almost saying, we're not interested.
PC CRANE: We will put on our computer records what we've done anyway. We'll
mark it up that obviously you are making allegations as to fraud -
G MR ROFFEY: Fabricating letters.
PC CRANE: Okay. At the end of the day they're trying to be fraudulent in terms of, if
they know at the end of the day they've got to pay you £500, and they think `well,
we're going to try and get away it', fabricate letters and pay you a tenner, that sort
of thing, if they're trying to do that, then obviously we'll mark it up and tag it for
our Fraud Department to look at it, but we're the wrong people to talk to. Alright?
H MR ROFFEY: So, can you recommend one of your officers come up here and have a chat
with me, then.
- 6 - ---- P.7 -------------------------- A PC CRANE: What happens in the Fraud Department is that it goes on front of their DS
who will look at it, and it'll be up to him to decide whether he pursues it or not.
MR ROFFEY: You see, it might appear to you as if I'm being up against you two, and
Fm not. You've come over to do a job and I appreciate that, all right, and I
appreciate you're working on a mistake, but there again, what I'm saying to you
now is that they have lied already to you, which falls in line with everything what
B they're doing.
PC CRANE: All I advise you is just deal with the Bank, and an employee whose
responsibility it is to deal with these things at the Bank. Don't write to any more
ex-employees, whether retired or whether working for another Bank. At the end of
the day, you're not going to do yourself any favours at all. Alright?
MR ROFFEY: I appreciate what you're saying, but it doesn't strike me that writing a
letter to an ex-employee, even if it was you doing your job, and I want to write a
C
letter to you being a witness to me up against something, if that considered
harassment is that what you're saying? Even as a policeman?
PC CRANE: If that person turns round and says `no, I don't like this' and makes a
complaint, that's harassment. If that person writes back to you and without
making any complaints, says `I'm quite happy to give you this information' -
MR ROFFEY: When you said that person at the moment let's get it right because, you
D know, we're talking about right and wrong here, which at the moment I'm in the
wrong in your eyes, so let's get it right when you say `that person', are we talking
about the Bank now doesn't want me to write to ex-employees, or are we talking
about a complaint from the Bank?
PC CRANE: The Bank has identified all the employees that have dealt with your account,
current and past
E MR ROFFEY: Have any of these employees made a complaint?
PC CRANE: I don't know whether we've got 20 or 30 statements. All that we've been
told, because we're foot soldiers at the end of the day
MR ROFFEY: I respect that you're doing your job.
PC CRANE: - is that officers have spoken to the Bank, and have spoken to the said
F employees, and for us to be round here, statements must have been taken.
MR ROFFEY: They have actually spoken to employees?
PC CRANE: Yes. The Bank has now said that if you contact we're saying -
MR ROFFEY: Does the Bank say that, not the employees saying that?
PC CRANE: The Bank has informed us, and now we are saying that if you contact any
G employee, past, present, whatever, retired -
MR ROFFEY: So you're working for the Bank now?
PC CRANE: No, we're not working for the Bank.
MR ROFFEY: Well, you are if you're saying you're acting on behalf of the Bank.
PC CRANE: Well, they've made the complaint, haven't they? They're complaining.
H MR ROFFEY: Yes, but excuse me. I don't want an argument with you because I'm not trying to twist you up or anything else to try and beat you at words, but what I'm - 7 - ---- P.8 -------------------------- A saying is, I'm fighting the Bank at the moment. Has the employee made a
complaint to you, any of these employees? There's a difference. If the Bank is
making a complaint to you, `don't contact our employees', I don't see that that's
anything whatsoever to do with the Bank.
PC CRANE: The employees have made complaints to the Bank
MR ROFFEY: Well, they shouldn't be making complaints to the Bank; they should be
B making
WPC KING: And to the police.
MR ROFFEY: Right, so now we've go it that there is the employees making the
complaints.
WPC KING: Right, we don't have to divulge this to you.
C MR ROFFEY: You do, because you are accusing me
PC CRANE: No, we don't.
MR ROFFEY: Excuse me, I don't want an argument here, and I'm trying to keep on the
right side of the law for obvious reasons. What I'm trying to say is, is it the Bank
that's saying if I contact their employees, you're going to come round and arrest
me, or is it an employee that is putting in the complaints?
D PC CRANE: We can stand here all day and argue. What I am going to say to you, and
that's all I've said to you and I'm not going to say to you any more, we are not at
liberty to divulge anything to you.
MR ROFFEY: No, but you've come here -
WPC KING: You have been warned, we have done our job, and we are going.
E PC CRANE: We're going.
MR ROFFEY: In other words, you're walking away from something where I think I'm
entitled -
PC CRANE: There's no more for us to be saying.
MR ROFFEY: You're shutting me up, like everyone wants to shut
WPC KING: We're going round in circles.
F
MR ROFFEY: You think you are, but I don't think I am. What I'm trying to say is, has
an employee made a complaint about me?
WPC KING: We have said we are not going to divulge that information.
MR ROFFEY: So, what are you doing here then? Tell me who has made the complaint,
please? I don't want to know the name and address. I just want to know, has the
G employee made the complaint, or has the Bank
PC CRANE: Employees have made a complaint.
MR ROFFEY: Employees have.
PC CRANE: Employees have made a complaint to us, and obviously to the Bank, and
that are retired.
H MR ROFFEY: Are we saying I can't even write to the Bank now.
- 8 - ---- P.9 -------------------------- - 9 - ---- P.10 -------------------------- A MR ROFFEY: Thank you.
This tape was made on 16 August, and you heard the two police officers who
arrived here telling me their names and numbers.
B
C D E F G H
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